Clubs of the future, ideas of partner Raffaele Morandini

25/11/2017 07:35 #1511 da Raffaele Morandini
Cari amici Soci,

On the occasion of the upcoming Annual Assembly, which I will not be able to attend, and in view of the 25 4000 XNUMX Foundation anniversary, I have thought of using the Forum tool to propose some ideas, so that a wider comparison with all. Strong on the feedback I received from my previous proposal, which was then accepted and, to a large extent, also realized ( ) below I point out some points that I personally believe to be useful in raising the Club 4000 to a level of prestige more consistent with the uniqueness that the club represents.

Before I list my ideas, I'm trying to expose a reflection from which my proposals came about. Bearing in mind that the "unique" features of the 4000 Club are: the exclusive entry, which is allowed only to members who have climbed at least 30 peaks of over 4000 meters, as well as the international component, I have asked the following questions. Apart from the purposes set out in the Rules, the 4000 Club what it wants to be and what it would like to become in the future? The answers I have given are essentially the two characteristics mentioned above, namely: the "prestige" of the same members [true is that it is not a business to get 30 four thousand, but it is also true that it is not something of all] above all, the internationality of its members. These two seemingly banal features (prestige and internationality) are exactly what should be exalted, ergo, the direction to go. In practice, you want to be recognized as the international club of Alps high altitude specialists. Hence my suggestions, which I hope can be enriched by further contributions from other members.

I raised this point several times in the assembly, but the subject has always fallen into the void. The current logo, with the exception of the 4000 (which in itself is a half coat of arms), is a trivial model predefined by the graphic programs used by different associations [here is just one example, this is the CAI Vimercate, who has used it for years: ]. Dunque, a mio parere, urge uno stemma tutto nostro, identificativo e rappresentativo, nonché esteticamente all’altezza di un Club internazionale. Da sempre è noto il potere di un logo azzeccato … lo sanno benissimo i pubblicitari. Si pensi solo all’impatto visivo e alla relativa forza comunicativa ed evocativa dello stemma delle guide alpine, oppure, a quello “mitico” e inconfondibile dei Ragni di Lecco, che richiama subito glorie e conquiste. Quello degli Scoiattoli di Cortina, o ancora, quello di alcune scuole di alpinismo del CAI, dall’estetica forse un po’ retorica ma dall’indubbio fascino romantico. Un logo adeguato ad un club come il nostro potrebbe essere tipo quello tondo dell’UIAA che utilizzano appunto le guide alpine, magari contornato dalle bandierine delle nazioni rappresentate dai nostri soci. Oppure a forma di scudo, più tradizionale, come quelli di molti club alpini gloriosi del passato. Comunque, non è certo qui la sede in cui trattare lo specifico, ma uno stemma tutto nostro ci vorrebbe!

Electronic brochure to send to alpine foreign clubs
This point has also been raised on several occasions by me. My idea is to create an electronic brochure, a flyer for the Club in PDF, to be sent to the attention of the chairmen of the central offices of the various alpine foreign clubs, with the "prayer" to forward it to their various sections. Obviously in the language of each nation. This would be the simplest, most economical, fast and contemporary way, to make known our beautiful association, which today, unfortunately, is still predominantly Italian, indeed, allow me to say "Piedmont-centric". And if it is true that ours is an international vocation ...

To make large and ambitious projects, money is needed. The easiest way to finance, I believe, is to find one or more sponsors. An "important" and international club like ours, should not have trouble finding a worthy patron. After all, we are about 464 mountaineers, many of whom are active throughout the Alpine arch. It should be a good advertisement, for example, for a sector company, perhaps with specific technical clothing or accessories. However, even if not in cash, sponsors could contribute to the creation of a clothing line for members. Returning to what's said for the logo, the most famous mountaineering associations boast all the level sponsors, who provide them at least clothing and equipment.

Another way to find funds is simply to give the opportunity, through the website, to make donations. Many onlus sites do, but not only, and often with unexpected results. Finally, you may qualify for any sympathizer, under "Supporting Member" or "Club Friend of 4000". These members would not become effective (so they would not appear in the list), but would be simple supporters, present in a separate list. They would receive our newsletters, gadgets, and so on.

Infine, approfittando proprio dell’occasione fornita dal 25° Anniversario, sarebbe bello dare alle stampe un volume fotografico, magari di ampio formato (tipo strenna natalizia, con foto a tutta pagina) che ripercorresse attraverso le immagini di tutti i nostri calendari e dei vecchi concorsi fotografici, la storia del Club. Credo che un bel libro sia meglio del calendario. Quest’ultimo ha perso un po’ l’appeal, non sono rimasti in molti che ancora ne acquistano uno, poi, passato l’anno, generalmente lo si butta. Invece il libro resta, tanto più se è fotografico … lo si sfoglia sempre con piacere. Sarebbe un altro modo per fare cassa e. a differenza di un calendario, non comporterebbe rischi di rimanenze, in quanto non vi sarebbero scadenze per la vendita. Si potrebbe inserire un testo con la storia del Club, e brevi biografie dei soci illustri come Kurt Diemberger, ecc. Anche un accenno alla storia del “collezionismo” citandone i pionieri. Inoltre, un libro fotografico sarebbe un bel ricordo per quanti negli anni anno donato le proprie foto.

Cotton t-shirts are useful for normal everyday activities but are not very popular for mountaineering. We could always, with the help of one or more sponsors, which I find fundamental, to realize technical t-shirts, fleece jackets, wind-stopper jackets and so on. all with our logo (which we should have), better if embroidered. Once again the example is the great teams or mountaineering associations. An example for all: the Rags of Lecco, sponsored by Adidas. But the various Alpine guides are a good example, and even the Alpine relief. However, we are also a club gathering mountaineers at rest, who in the mountains, perhaps for personal reasons, only go for walks. So it would be the case to have something badge for city clothing as well. Following the example of the English, which clubs understand, could be made for silk men (with a sponsor's favor) with club colors, and ladies' scarves. Actually, the scarf in the mountain was also wearing the illustrious mountaineers ... amongst others, I remember Caesar Maestri, and King Albert of Belgium, who was wearing an unmistakable, red fire! And why not, maybe make small, discreet jackets, with the logo of the partnership. In short, a bit of elegance never fails. Prestigious and even elegant!

STRUCTURE and CLUB contacts
First of all, I would like to point out that, like Club 4000 (and not CAI Torino), we do not have a telephone number (which is not a fax). Personally I know an association that does not have a telephone reference. I understand it is a hassle and a commitment for those who would be willing to make the telephone contact, but I think it is the least to communicate more directly and faster. At present, the whole load of communications with members is supported by the Secretariat. A more defined and specific Club structure could alleviate the work of the Secretariat and give a more professional image of the management structure. I'll explain. On the website may appear, under the heading "Contacts" (which we do not have) several sections, each entrusted to the branch delegate. For example: General Secretariat, Presidency, Climatic Consultant, Clothing Store Manager (Gadget, etc.), Public Relations, etc. Indicating for each of these, a specific e-mail and / or a phone number (perhaps indicating the times).

On the occasion of the 25 anniversary, cultural events, such as conferences and conferences, could be organized. The themes ranging from mountaineering to environmental issues, the ones that most concern us, such as the case of climate change. Topical topic (certainly inflated by the media) but which, however, involves us directly, unfortunately. So we could say ours on this subject, knowing the cause, indeed, we have members, see your friend Franz Roda Notari, who have been professionally engaged in this topic, also doing conferences on it. I refrain from suggesting mountaineering themes because I imagine that there are so many to be spoiled for choice.

UIAA, or maybe better, EUMA?
Reflecting on the two essential features of the 4000 Club (see above) I have always been of the opinion that we might want to enter directly into UIAA. This thought is shared by our honorable President Luciano Ratto, who certainly lacks brave ideas. As an alternative to UIAA, we could be part of the emerging EUMA (European Union of Mountaineering Association) to which the Central CAI is also looking at increasing interest in the strong ethical principles that the latter would like to pursue. Perhaps, in order to take a step in this direction, we will need to reform the Club's By-Laws / Regulations, which limits us to a simple CAI Torino Group. But want is power!

I do not know if it has happened to you to meet people who confuse our 4000 Club with the other Club 4000, that of Macugnaga. It has happened to me so often that sometimes it seems to me that Monte Rosa is better known than ours. Now, I'm not interested in entering the specificity of homonymy, rather I would like to take the opportunity to make a shock proposal. Why do not we change the name? Reflecting the aforementioned international vocation, why not call us INTERNATIONAL CLUB 4000 ? Personally I would find it sensational. With a nice logo would be perfect! At this point, ferrying into UIAA or EUMA would be the most logical consequence.

Annual itinerant assembly
Personally, I believe that moving the seat of the Annual Assembly, perhaps changing every year, is a good way to facilitate members, especially those who live very far from Turin. Yet there is the previous, well-successful, Bergamo. Moving along the Alpine arch would not be a bad idea ... and maybe even go abroad. Perhaps not all the years, but every now and then I would like to know, in Switzerland, that everything would be there. Also considered that the Swiss partners are growing in number.

LARGO TO YOUNG (or perhaps even NO)
To achieve great dreams or small ambitions, it is necessary, even before the economic base, to have time. Which is more valuable and rare than the same money. Ideas, like those I have outlined above, have never failed, while time is, unfortunately. That I miss totally! It would take two lives to accomplish all the things I have in mind. Just in keeping with the "time I did not" I never wanted to apply for the Board of Directors of the 4000 Club. This is to avoid making the classic type from the motto "We Arm & Match". I am a member of several CONI Sports Associations, some of whom I have been a counselor, and I am currently active in the Marathon Club. I personally know that the most active management councils are paradoxically the most "old" from the point of view of the registry. This is because young people, often athletes in the fullness of their business, have good ideas but do not have the time for devotion. Ergo, the paralysis of the council, and hence the association. Generally, retired people have more time to spend on association than a young man who works (or studies) and trains. If stimulated by fresh ideas, senior counselors have all the rules in place to be able to accomplish them. Even in terms of "image" a person of a certain age presents itself with more authority in the face of any institutional, corporate (sponsors) etc .. At least, this is my personal experience, matured over the years (the first time I went to a CD of a sports association I had 20anni). Young people have energy to sell, but then they need to be aware of their time available, otherwise the energy ends up failing to reach the heart of the association. All this to say that if we want to implement great projects we will need people with great time, even before ideas that, like me, other members will not struggle to have.

I believe that on the occasion of the 25 ° Anniversary of the 4000 Club, it is necessary to give an acknowledgment to the Founding Fathers of our partnership, Luciano Ratto and Franco Bianco, as well as to the Secretary Flavio Melindo, who in the last few years has done most of the work. Other acknowledgments should be made to our webmaster Piero Bianco and the most meritorious members.

I would also like to remind you of our dear deceased members who, as the Alpine would say, "have gone on." In this regard, I would like to express my condolences to the recent disappearance of dear Socia Alessandra Casiraghi, mocked by fate, a few days after reaching her dream of climbing all fourteen 82.

Good mountain to everyone from "that of the night" ...

Raffaele Morandini


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02/12/2017 11:54 #1512 da Luciano Ratto

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01/01/2018 10:13 #1515 da Aldo Tosetti
Hello, finally I can find some 'time to intervene, at least in part, on the arguments launched by Raffaele Morandini and shared by Luciano Ratto.
I would like to thank Morandini for his proposal which, shareable or not, gives a shock to the internal debate of the Club, bringing advice that if shared can be immediately applied, and at the same time, proposing a new project stimulates us to ask questions and give answers on the future of the Club.

I share the BROCHURE proposal to be sent to foreign Alpine clubs.
[As I believe that the relationship with the international partners is important and urgent, while being aware that certainly someone in this period has already maintained contact with some foreign partners, I propose that as soon as possible, a survey is conducted among all the members with a newsletter and a notice on our site and on the Facebook page, to ask each member if he knows another language sufficiently (in the case of members of other languages ​​if they know Italian sufficiently) and if in case they would be willing (free) to translate press releases and other information from the Club or its members. Once the answers have been obtained, we can already establish dialogue channels that can be useful even without the brochure. It is clear that at the beginning the question can be asked using the languages ​​we know at the time. (personally I only know Italian)]

Given the above I am clearly in favor of the proposal to change the NAME of the Club in "International Club4000" or maybe "Club4000 International", as I would have no objections to the proposal relating to the LOGO.

UIAA - EUMA - On this point, which then seems to me to be the central point of the proposal, unfortunately I have not yet gained a clear vision, also because it is a prospect that comes new. I also have to document myself about the EUMA that I do not know.
For me, personally and for now, "prestigious" is the Club4000;
I understand, however, that as Clubs we seek increasingly higher goals, even if it should be emphasized that in order to achieve this "prestige", and to fulfill the statutory commitment to spread a certain type of mountaineering, the threshold has been lowered from 50 to 30. entry (who already had 50 tops was already on the right track ...), while from an operational point of view we have supported (quite natural) the CAI section of Turin and the activity of many partners including a core more homogeneous territorially identifiable to the west, things that have allowed the Club to reach the 25 ° year since its foundation, with almost 500 cards and 12 nations represented. (at least this is, without dwelling on me and because for a few years now, my key to reading the path made by the Club). (Of course we must also remember the intense work done previously by the founding members)
Undoubtedly as a Club we have achieved a considerable weight not only in terms of "collections" (which, as a word, is perhaps a bit tight), but for the most part also, as Morandini says, as "high altitude climbs" , each of course at their own level, to which I would add the value of many high-level individual alpine activities to all levels, for example. openings of new or repetitions of ancient ways, the repetition of ascents to 4000 by different routes, etc. etc. (even if these are little known to our internal if not through the "connection" to the members' websites), not least the cultural weight achieved with the production of the book "All the 4000, the thin air of the 'alta quota', the patronage of "The great book of 4000", the photographic calendars, the evenings organized by the members, the double alpine / cultural value of the support to the restoration of the Quintino Sella hut to the Rochers del Bianco; all this can be well spent, so it is good to question projects for the future.

Above all, what I think should be solicited, is a more active participation, for example. I do not know how the facebook page works because it is an instrument that does not attract me, but looking at the site we must admit that it is not very involved, so it becomes necessary to solicit the use of the Forum columns (for example: criticism of who would have expected from our site "fresh" information on our climbs) or consider the fact that it is probably our formulation that does not convince the use since the window "the last climbs of the members" had more prominence. Still on the subject of participation, the proposal on the rotation of the places of performance of the annual ASSEMBLY (in my opinion still not much participated) is very shareable, which could facilitate greater knowledge and collaboration among the members, a more constructive internal debate, eliminating in part the limits imposed by the territorial extension of the club.

SPONSORS AND FINANCING Undoubtedly greater financial resources may correspond to greater initiatives, but provided they do not involve a relationship of DARE and HAVING that could eventually be more harmful than beneficial.

LARGO AI / ALLE GIOVANI - Of course, yes, the future is theirs. On the date of the 31.12.17 examine the pages of the registry of members on our. site shows that:
The ns. younger partner is Swiss, 1994 class, 30 counts new 4000 and also boasts a beautiful mountaineering curriculum;
the ns. The youngest member is Belgian, 1989 class, and counts 61 new 4000.

The member of the 1994 class reported above is the only one below the 25 years; if we consider the member (s) included in the 25 and 35 years we count a small group of 19 (16 males and 3 females) of which:
15 (black stamp) with less than 50 new 4000,
3 (yellow stamp) with less than 70 new 4000,
1 (red stamp) with all 82 4000 ascended.
Not bad, but I would say that we could do something more for young people.
To go back to what Morandini said I would say that both among the young and the most elderly people, the time is still tyranny, but a lot depends on the organizational structure and useful could be the proposal made of the creation of several "sector contacts" in the site entrusted to delegates.

25 ° Nothing against the proposed awards.
I conclude my speech / contribution to the proposal under discussion even if as I said it is only partial. Greetings and good climbs to everyone. Aldo Tosetti

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04/01/2018 16:57 #1516 da Luke Calzone
Dear fellow members, as current President of Club4000 I respond to the proposals sent here on the forum by the shareholder Raffaele Morandini, whom I thank for what is written.
I have always considered the Club4000 a prestigious "thing", since before I was able to enter the 2009. Now that I am the current regent, my consideration is unchanged and grown. We arrived at the 25 year and it is up to me to make a budget. Thanks to the founders and to all those who have succeeded in managing and growing the club.
What is Club4000 today and towards what future it is heading. It is a group of the Cai Torino of almost 500 members of 12 different countries, internationally known that has earned the esteem of many. In the panorama of all the mountain associations that exist it is something in itself and is unique. It has its own regulation, and enjoys its life and independence. For many, like myself, entering was a great goal, and served as a fundamental stimulus to get to the fateful 30 ascents.
Being a Cai Torino group we do not have our own autonomy and it is for this reason that a possible entry into the UIAA is not possible. We do not have a VAT number, we do not have a fiscal identity. I would like this concept to be clear. At the time this formula was chosen and to date it is the legal reality of the club.
As we all know, alpinism is an individual and autonomous activity. Our job is to keep the interest in the delicate and fragile high altitude terrain high. And we do it by managing the club, managing the historic Quintino Sella hut at the Rochers (which we are proud of) and its restoration (always through the accounting of Cai To), printing the prestigious calendar, organizing popular evenings, organizing social events, etc. . So we try to keep the club's visibility high.
We are using new channels and new modern methods of communication. We have created the "Club4000-Official Group", a more popular social space and a special page on the Quintino Sella Hut at the Rochers which has had very important numbers of visitors. In the post posted on the installation of the new webcams we had over 10.500 views.
For those who do not have a profile on fb is an unknown world, for those who use it is an efficient and quick way to share photos, content etc. Even the Forum is a tool that has now become "obsolete". We have just created the new 25 x 82 project site to celebrate the 25 anniversary of the foundation with the ascent of all 4000 by all members.
Club4000 is a live band, every year we have 20 new members on average. It is still a good number. The interest of youngsters is aimed above all at easy and comfortable sport climbing. Long routes and above all classic mountaineering at high altitude are activities less practiced at a young age. And this trend has lasted for years. Just look at the average age of our members.
The interest instead for our Assembly, is little and is declining from year to year.
I know very well that many do not like assemblies and organized dinners. But for us members of the Board of Directors, to see so little participation certainly does not encourage.
Organizing an event is always a little big effort. The last social trip to the Margherita hut was a disappointment due to the very low participation, practically nothing. I emphasize this fact, because we would like more members to the activities organized by the club.
And I personally and so much commitment, as the Councilors, consistent with the work and personal commitments, as I remind everyone that we are volunteers and that our business is all one more that we decide to donate to the club. And like all true mountain lovers, the time spent in an activity in the mountains comes first of all, even the club.
We would like to do more, of course, but we lack time and above all economic resources. What we can do is under everyone's eyes. For the calendar the club anticipates the money and until we sell a certain number of calendars, we can not amortize it! We would need help and participation, as well as suggestions and proposals. In November 2018 there will be new elections. Well, we need new motivated people with time to dedicate to the club. The directors have a monthly frequency. We are slowly alternating our historic secretary Flavio. It takes some time for this ...
All the proposals received by the members Morandini, Tosetti and by Ratto, will be in the ODG of the first board of the 2018 that will take place in this month in mid-January.
As I said, the 25 x 82 project started. I hope there is a great deal of participation and that every member in business will make a personal contribution to complete the 82 collection during the 2018.
Good mountain at all.

Luke Calzone


Luke Calzone

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29/01/2018 00:10 - 29/01/2018 04:16 #1517 da Raffaele Morandini
First of all, I thank you for the interventions related to my "ideas".

The obsession (mine) for the time
Aldo Tosetti writes "... finally I can find some time to intervene ...". Here is the nerve point! Which I had emphasized in my writing. Time is my obsession! But I note that it is not only mine ... even the members of the CD are underlining it, showing that I had caught in the point.

Therefore, the "missing" time is one of the two big themes, which, in my opinion, constitute the limit to the realization of the projects I had exhibited. The other crucial issue is the distance between the members. To achieve ambitious goals, both the time (of the members of the CD) and the possibility of communicating quickly are fundamental. Perhaps, in my opinion, the latter is more tractable than time (see my point: Large to young people, or maybe not). Obviously, dear Aldo, the future belongs to the young, but you can not tell me that a pensioner (generalizing) has the same free time as a young person (who studies, works, goes climbing, etc.). Then the exceptions are another thing and would be welcome.

With regard to the sponsors, there would be no "giving" and "having", because it would be to sponsor an "elitist" partnership a little like the associations of mountain guides, or as for mountain rescue. I repeat, the best example is the Ragni di Lecco, who have a big international sponsor, who does not ask anything in return if not to dress their brand. Among our members there is also a representative of a large technical mountaineering brand. If you created a "public relations office", I am convinced, you would not find it difficult to find a good sponsor. However, the sponsor (or the sponsors) is certainly better than adding a membership fee, which could discourage the entry of new members. I realize that we are talking about "small change", but for many (not very motivated) it is a psychological fact.

About the concept of volunteering
In the answer of the president Luca Calzone, justification is evident. Perhaps my post was misunderstood. Far from doing controversy, let alone criticizing the work of others, especially if this is voluntary. On the contrary, as I have already had the opportunity to do, I can not do that thank all those who are involved in running the 4000 Club. But I can not fail to make a small clarification about two things. The president Luca Calzone writes: "... The mountain comes first of all, even the Club (?) "Unfortunately, I have to disagree with this statement, because this is true for myself and for those who have not held positions in the club, so commitments to all members. Members do not have duties towards the Club, except those to respect the Statute. When you take on a task, even if voluntary, even more so if you are a manager, you should perform it with the same responsibility and availability (even time) as the professional one. Therefore the mountain could also be sacrificed. I think. Personally, for several years, together with my wife (her as a physician and I as a physiotherapist) we do volunteer work in the health sector, but the time we have given as available (always too little) remains an imperative commitment. All the more so because no one forces us to do it. Nothing personal, mine is just a clarification to clarify that the voluntary work and the professional one should differ only from the salary, which in the first case is absent.

Instead, it is very interesting what you write, dear Luca, about the lack of autonomy with respect to CAI Turin. This is obviously an obstacle, in case you want to make that qualitative leap, aimed at the internationality of the Club. From here, if you want to do it (the qualitative leap), those "radical" discussions arise around the statute or same belonging to the CAI Turin. Obviously mine are visionary ideas, but not utopian. Obviously they would require long time, availability of time, means and enthusiasm. In this regard, to overcome all the problems mentioned above, it could (revolutionizing the whole), create in the future a group of volunteers outside the Club, with honorary cards or "friends of the Club", with appropriate characteristics of professionalism. In this way you would have people with the sole and exclusive task of directing the Club, in the best way. Finding people (former managers, mountain lovers) with knowledge of languages, willing to devote themselves to the management of a prestigious club, from which they would have a return of "image". Personally, I would not feel "stolen" from such a CD. The President could always be an effective member, but from the secretary of the externals who carry out specific tasks corresponding to their formation.

Change or not?
In the case of interest for such a change, a "referendum" newsletter could be used to hear the opinion of all members, including those abroad. Or, of course, we can arbitrarily decide to simply stay what we are today ... a very virtual meeting point between collector alpinists. Maybe improving the efficiency in the management of the site and communication with the members ... which, it is true that they are not interactive, but perhaps they have never been stimulated in this sense.

Club Friends of the Andes
Personally I was able to follow the experience of the former CAI Lima, now Club Friends of the Andes, of which I am a great friend of the Secretary. Well, as you can easily imagine, the members (also of high alpinistic level) live very far from each other, and I'm certainly not young. Still, I can assure you that it is a club that has a difficult to believe participation. I have been invited several times to their meetings and I can assure you that participation is maximum ... really a nice group. I attach this to the effectiveness of management. This is just to say that it is not a utopia to put distant people together.

I apologize for the length of my writing, but I had to reply to the answers to my post.

I close where I left off, or the obsession (mine) of time. In my hyper-dynamic life I also struggled to draw the necessary time for my intervention. However, I think my affection for the 4000 Club is evident, but I think it is equally evident my impossibility to assume "official" commitments that I could not do in the best way, due to lack of time. This does not mean that I will continue to give my small contributions, such as the reviews of books and ideas, which are always the starting point for evolution.

A greeting from "that of the night" ...

Raffaele Morandini

Last edit: 29 / 01 / 2018 04: 16 by Raffaele Morandini.
Thank You: Aldo Tosetti

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